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	<title>Comments on: Can virtualization be trusted for security?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://advosys.ca/viewpoints/2006/04/virtualization-insecurity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://advosys.ca/viewpoints/2006/04/virtualization-insecurity/</link>
	<description>Security, operating systems and the IT industry</description>
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		<title>By: D Webber</title>
		<link>http://advosys.ca/viewpoints/2006/04/virtualization-insecurity/comment-page-1/#comment-5098</link>
		<dc:creator>D Webber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advosys.ca/viewpoints/archives/6#comment-5098</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If someone tells you that goats are living on the moon, the onus is on them to prove it, not on you to disprove it.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The folks using virtualization to contain server instances for security purposes are assuming that VM isolation is just as robust as separation of physical servers. That&#039;s a &quot;goats on the moon&quot; assumption... which is odd because not even the vendors are making that claim (read the TOE of the ESX server common criteria evaluation).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Are exploits against virtual machines likely? Of course. All software has bugs, especially complex software like virtualization products. Do I know of exploits specifically for ESX server? Not at the moment, but then I&#039;m not connected to any of the underground black markets where such exploits are most likely to show up first.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If someone tells you that goats are living on the moon, the onus is on them to prove it, not on you to disprove it.  </p>
<p>The folks using virtualization to contain server instances for security purposes are assuming that VM isolation is just as robust as separation of physical servers. That&#8217;s a &quot;goats on the moon&quot; assumption&#8230; which is odd because not even the vendors are making that claim (read the TOE of the ESX server common criteria evaluation).  </p>
<p>Are exploits against virtual machines likely? Of course. All software has bugs, especially complex software like virtualization products. Do I know of exploits specifically for ESX server? Not at the moment, but then I&#8217;m not connected to any of the underground black markets where such exploits are most likely to show up first.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark K</title>
		<link>http://advosys.ca/viewpoints/2006/04/virtualization-insecurity/comment-page-1/#comment-4743</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advosys.ca/viewpoints/archives/6#comment-4743</guid>
		<description>I would think that the level of security would vary quite a bit depending on the host (ESX, Windows, Linux).  Are there really any exploits to break out of a VM guest into an ESX 3 server?  Is any exploit at all likely?

Vmware says that the kernel hosting the VM guest is purely VMware.  The implication is that any Linux vulnerabilities in the Service Console would not be reachable by the guest OSs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would think that the level of security would vary quite a bit depending on the host (ESX, Windows, Linux).  Are there really any exploits to break out of a VM guest into an ESX 3 server?  Is any exploit at all likely?</p>
<p>Vmware says that the kernel hosting the VM guest is purely VMware.  The implication is that any Linux vulnerabilities in the Service Console would not be reachable by the guest OSs.</p>
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		<title>By: D Webber</title>
		<link>http://advosys.ca/viewpoints/2006/04/virtualization-insecurity/comment-page-1/#comment-533</link>
		<dc:creator>D Webber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advosys.ca/viewpoints/archives/6#comment-533</guid>
		<description>Tommy:

Thanks for the comment. You&#039;re right that a virtual machine can be &quot;safe&quot; for a particular purpose. Anything can be acceptable as long as you understand the issues and accept the risk. Using virtual machines all within the same security domain (to emulate all the servers housed within one DMZ, for example), isn&#039;t much riskier than physical hardware since the assumption of a DMZ is always that the machines within it can attack each other. Spanning security domains is higher risk, since much less is known about vulnerabilities in these entirely software-based emulations than is known about physical hardware like a firewall appliance.

The point of the article is that people are assuming virtual machines are *identical* security-wise to physical machines, and that the emulated VLANs provided by products like vmware are *identical* to physical LANs or hardware VLANs. They&#039;re not.. and shouldn&#039;t blindly be used as drop-in substitutions for physical hardware.

Regarding VLANs, in the article I was talking about the emulated VLANs implemented within VMWare. These are software simulations of physical LANs, just like the NICs in each guest OS is a software emulation of a physical network card. I don&#039;t think VMWare VLANs use 802.1q internally... but that&#039;s something to look into. The point is that there are ways to escape VLANs when implemented in hardware... assuming that simulated LANS implemented entirely in software are just as strong is a mistake IMHO.

By the way, take at look at the &quot;aims and benefits&quot; section in the original IEEE 802.1Q spec at http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/download/802.1Q-1998.pdf. Physical VLANs were originally designed to limit ethernet collision domains and to allow physically separate hosts to be placed logically on the same LAN. As far as I can see, security wasn&#039;t a specific design goal. Doesn&#039;t mean VLANs can never be used to provide traffic separation for security purposes... it depends on what you&#039;re protecting and the level risk you&#039;re willing to accept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tommy:</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment. You&#8217;re right that a virtual machine can be &#8220;safe&#8221; for a particular purpose. Anything can be acceptable as long as you understand the issues and accept the risk. Using virtual machines all within the same security domain (to emulate all the servers housed within one DMZ, for example), isn&#8217;t much riskier than physical hardware since the assumption of a DMZ is always that the machines within it can attack each other. Spanning security domains is higher risk, since much less is known about vulnerabilities in these entirely software-based emulations than is known about physical hardware like a firewall appliance.</p>
<p>The point of the article is that people are assuming virtual machines are *identical* security-wise to physical machines, and that the emulated VLANs provided by products like vmware are *identical* to physical LANs or hardware VLANs. They&#8217;re not.. and shouldn&#8217;t blindly be used as drop-in substitutions for physical hardware.</p>
<p>Regarding VLANs, in the article I was talking about the emulated VLANs implemented within VMWare. These are software simulations of physical LANs, just like the NICs in each guest OS is a software emulation of a physical network card. I don&#8217;t think VMWare VLANs use 802.1q internally&#8230; but that&#8217;s something to look into. The point is that there are ways to escape VLANs when implemented in hardware&#8230; assuming that simulated LANS implemented entirely in software are just as strong is a mistake IMHO.</p>
<p>By the way, take at look at the &#8220;aims and benefits&#8221; section in the original IEEE 802.1Q spec at <a href="http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/download/802.1Q-1998.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/download/802.1Q-1998.pdf</a>. Physical VLANs were originally designed to limit ethernet collision domains and to allow physically separate hosts to be placed logically on the same LAN. As far as I can see, security wasn&#8217;t a specific design goal. Doesn&#8217;t mean VLANs can never be used to provide traffic separation for security purposes&#8230; it depends on what you&#8217;re protecting and the level risk you&#8217;re willing to accept.</p>
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		<title>By: Tommy</title>
		<link>http://advosys.ca/viewpoints/2006/04/virtualization-insecurity/comment-page-1/#comment-523</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://advosys.ca/viewpoints/archives/6#comment-523</guid>
		<description>Do you have a source for your statement that Virtual LAN&#039;s aren&#039;t designed for security purposes? This is the first time I see that statement. I don&#039;t know that much about virtual machines, but I know network well. And the &quot;escape techniques&quot; that are in the source article that supports your VLAN statement, are quite well known under networking professionals. It&#039;s always best practice to leave the native VLAN unused, or use it for management purposes only. 

Having said that, you cannot &quot;hop VLAN&#039;s&quot; on a network that doesn&#039;t use the Native VLAN, or use Cisco&#039;s propriatary ISL instead of IEEE 802.1q to communicate between switches. Because &quot;Native VLAN&quot; exists on a 802.1q link only.

In my opinion, a virtual machine can be as &quot;save&quot; as you need it to be. You just need to understand the technique very well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you have a source for your statement that Virtual LAN&#8217;s aren&#8217;t designed for security purposes? This is the first time I see that statement. I don&#8217;t know that much about virtual machines, but I know network well. And the &#8220;escape techniques&#8221; that are in the source article that supports your VLAN statement, are quite well known under networking professionals. It&#8217;s always best practice to leave the native VLAN unused, or use it for management purposes only. </p>
<p>Having said that, you cannot &#8220;hop VLAN&#8217;s&#8221; on a network that doesn&#8217;t use the Native VLAN, or use Cisco&#8217;s propriatary ISL instead of IEEE 802.1q to communicate between switches. Because &#8220;Native VLAN&#8221; exists on a 802.1q link only.</p>
<p>In my opinion, a virtual machine can be as &#8220;save&#8221; as you need it to be. You just need to understand the technique very well.</p>
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